Earlier this year, Agency Director Luca Senatore spoke for the second time at eCommerce Berlin - this time tackling the six tactics any retailer needs to master to lay the foundation for revolutionary marketing results in the fast moving retail industry.
Luca's talk took the audience through a journey from technology and mobile, through to getting it right on social media. Strap yourself in for a journey that sets out to provide you with more than just the basics - but everything that will truly make retailers grow. After all... only being 'good' is boring.
Transcript: EBE 2017: Luca Senatore (Genie Goals)
Good afternoon everybody! How are you feeling? End of the day let's bring some energy. That's going to be easy and let me tell you why. I'm incredibly honoured to be here, this is the second time speaking in beautiful Berlin and I'm always very challenged because if you don't speak first and you had the opportunity to interact with some of you, you realise how amazing everyone is, so the bar gets higher and higher the more interactions you have, so the pressure is on. Also I really wanted to bring value so I've added loads of headlines and top-level slides because I want to touch on all the points that I can. We probably won't go into details in many but I invite you to stop me afterwards I will be around for a few hours, the flight is on your nine o'clock, so I’ll take any question and actually here is my way to give back to you, as you're giving me the opportunity to be here talking to you. There's many of you so I'm going to be reluctant but I promised I would do it, so after today if you call up the office in Cambridge in England, it will be on me completely free of charge, half an hour consultancy over the telephone, over your marketing effort and you can quote me on that, that's my offer to you to say thank you. So thank you, thank you very much.
So I am assuming you read all of that, this isn't about us is about you so keep all of that because you've read it, I know you did. Some talk, so I’m going to talk about six core principles or 20 to succeed in digital marketing right and I’m going to use my friend Mario. Mario doesn't exist and in his defence, I'm exaggerating slightly but if we true to ourselves, we should admit that there is a little bit of Mario in all of us at times. And let me explain what that means. Mario could be an eCommerce manager, he could be a CMO, he could be a CEO or a head of SEM/SEA. It doesn't really matter what Mario is. Mario has that objective, to acquire, to engage and to retain customers, which is what we hear today right. So we can summarise that as Mario wants to grow and many people want to grow in business, many businesses want to grow, but I think I speak on behalf of everybody who's grown a business when I say that growing a business does require that we take some risk, does require they will put in the hard work. Yeah, the law of attraction is a beautiful thing but you're not going to get success by wishing it right, you need to work and take some risk.
So oh that that's actually a mistake, Mario doesn't believe that. Mario believes that technology is useless. Mario believes that only desktop matters. Mario believes that you should ignore your audience, it’s all about you. Mario believes that social is a waste of time and he also believes that customers are all the same. So I’m telling Mario listen, I think you need to revisit this philosophy, I don't think it's going to work out for you in life that way. Look we build Clarence, which is a piece of technology we have built, but there are many technology solutions out there that can help you to do everything that Clarence does or most of the things. Clarence does intelligent bidding, feed driven campaigns so that you can achieve 100% coverage in your catalog, where for some of the products you wouldn't be able to invest the time because the volume is too little, but if you can automate then you can do it. You can do modeling and forecasting, you can do deducing and attribution and so on and so forth.
Mario you can really do interesting stuff with technology because this start it's quite impactful, more than 73 million products were disapprove only due to the feed being incorrect or broken and that's in one quarter. I don't know what the average of the value of European ecommerce is, but I would guess somewhere between 30 and 40 pounds if you multiply 20 and 40 pound by 73 million. That’s a lot of millions left on the table, just because the feed failed to deliver. Mario says okay, okay I get it, I’ll look into a better solution and I'm thinking to myself okay I'm winning this conversation, I'm convincing Mario to look into better solutions and then I get bit disheartened and I’ll say hey whatever.
So let's move on Mario. Look this is a case study, is a piece of technology we have built to bid at the product level on Google shopping. If you know Google shopping you can bid at the partition level, which means that you can't bid at the product level, which means that a product may be performing very well and yet getting a low bid because this part of a partition and at the same time a product that doesn't convert well gets a higher bid when it doesn't deserve it. The only way around this without technology is by building hundreds of partitions, which in theory is possible, in practice is impossible, because it will be impossible to maintain. So we build a piece of technology. The development of this piece took six months, if I’m not wrong, but these are the results. We implemented it where the blackberries and you can see the revenue doubling and this is a retailer with more than five years’ experience and the account was very well established. So this isn't as a result of something else, this is directly impacted by this technology development.
Another case study we took the same feed and we use it to automate the creation of campaigns, to automate the creation of campaigns for long tail keywords and this, this is a four-day lap and this is the sales going up since we implemented it. So the good news is that when you invest time and money then the results can come. Yes sometimes you develop and you're investing, results don't come, but if you don't invest, if you don't try, they will definitely not come. Look Mario, this is Monday to Friday, Monday to Sunday and this is the hours of the day. You can clearly see the green parts is where you convert, the red part is where you don't convert. Now if you bid manually, even if you just spend twenty or thirty thousand pound a month, which represents a small retailer, it's impossible to keep up with it. You'll be spending your time bidding and if you spend your time managing the bids, who spends the time doing a strategy work, the ad copy work, all the clever word that can bring exponential results if you keep managing the bids. At the very least we need to automate the bids at the very, very least, even if that means using the Google CPA tool, it doesn't matter, but if you bid manually and you spending more than 5000 grand a month, you wasting loads of time.
By raise of hands honest who doesn't have one of these. So if this is your target market, Mario will say oh Yankees don't buy from mobile. Now I don't know what your experience is, my experience is that if you want to talk to a teenager, you need to do it through snapshot because face-to-face they don't talk to you anymore. But if your target market is young adults, they also are on mobile, they just use whatsapp or email or Facebook, but they on mobile most of the time. This is the interesting part, this is the one that excites me the most because this wasn't happening only six months ago. My mother six months ago didn't know what whatsapp was; now she sends me emoji’s, yeah. The world is changing, we either change with it or we get left behind Mario and he is not taking it. But let's look at this, this is very interesting.
In the last five years, foot traffic in stores fell by 57%. Yep, snap, snap, take pictures I know, I know you want to. Yet they average order value in store tripled. What does that tell you? Raise of hands anybody, don't be shy, what does that tell you? 100% Research online and then go buy. So people spend time researching and then a pickup in store. If you’re Mario and Athena mobile doesn't compare to missing out on the store visit. Now is this good or bad? Good raise your hands, bad stand up. Good or bad mobile by raise of hand. This is amazing; this is the best mobile experience I've ever had. In one screen you can decide to buy for men, for women, for clothing, for gift, for knitwear, for jeans, it's incredible; this is ASOS by the way, well done ASOS. Good or bad? Raise your hand if it's bad. There you go, sorry Zalando. I looked for women shoes, you can't even see the damn thing, yeah, look at this, look at my hand. Can you try and click the X with these eyes then? Good luck yeah.
So if you Mario and you have a mobile site of this kind, it's very easy to say mobile doesn't work, isn't it? But is it the mobile traffic or is it the mobile experience? So what can you do? Be mobile. If you got to be mobile, be mobile. Yeah, use a user conversion, sorry yeah use a conversion rate optimisation agency, a user experience agency, if you got to be mobile be mobile and this is a piece of advice from somebody who still has lots to learn, but I've been in this industry for 20 years, forget what you like, ask your customers what do they like, what do they find easy to use, because what we like is often not what the customers want. Here's a little tool, isn't perfect but it's a good start. If you go to testmysite.thinkwithgoogle.com and you type in your URL, it does a very quick analysis of your mobile site, it tells you whether it is quick enough, it tells you where it is mobile-friendly now that's a good start. It's not by any means the mecca mobile but it's a good start. Just out of interest, how many of you knew about this before? Good I’m getting 70%, i love it, well, because I really want to bring value and if I tell you what you already know then I'll kill myself.
What can you do? Be there. So here is quick example: likely the guys are SCS were very generous because as you can see that they made very poor use of the extensions here, yeah for those who don't know, these are site extensions. They only have the titles. Had they included click to call and some description, they would have taken up the whole space, yet if you know position one or two of mobile, you really don't exist above the fold. So if you have a product, if you have a mobile side that works and a product that converts well on mobile, you really ought to bid up if you want to be seen. So I ask Mario, Mario what is your mobile strategy? You know what he said? You know what he’s saying. Yeah forget all the store visits, forget all the assisted conversions, we kill all the bids, but I want to grow and yeah I begin to feel a bit like this. It's a tough conversation and I begin to beg oh man come on, Mario listen how about this, let's talk about social.
Who does not have a social account of some kind, raise your hand. I thought so yeah. So social is interesting because today with Facebook you can target people. So let's take me, so you know I'm married, you know my age, you know my interest, you know where I live, you know more or less my earnings, in fact with a new Google from beta, but then you bid from Google, you can soon target income levels as well, which is very interesting, so you know everything about me and yet 99% of the retailers I see, certainly Mario, make the mistake to talk to you guys the same way on Facebook, as they do on Instagram, as they do on Twitter. Yet if you do a little exercise amongst yourself, go inside and mind and reflect, last time you were on Facebook, what was your mindset? What were you doing? Messaging people, checking out events of birthdays? Last time you were on Twitter was it the same mindset? Probably not. On Instagram, probably not. So why should I talk to you the same way if you're on a different psychological journey? So here's somebody who does it well, Nike does it very well.
Facebook, a good balanced mix between pictures and banners and you can go to and buy the product and conversation. So Facebook is to acquire and engage. Look what they do on Instagram, it's all about showing. So they show, they short beautiful image or inspirational imagery, beautiful stuff and that's what they do on Twitter, which is what you meant to do on Twitter which is to engage and interact with people, makes it personal. It is really all about forgetting the people like this kid who really, really, really wants to blanket now. Anybody familiar with Aida model. Aida model? Yeah we'll talk about in a moment but basically this is where people are ready to take action. This is when people are ready to buy. Everybody wants to sell to people who want to buy. True or true? True right? So it's a very competitive landscape.
Now here's the thing, if I am brand A and I sell shoes, do you think I'm better off driving people from my side through generic searches, so shoes or shoes from brand A? Clearly the latter right, because it costs less than because they want my brand. So it's about getting in people's head when they are still at that stage, maybe in a couple of weeks, in a month, in six months, I may need a new blanket and if we can get our brand in front of these people then, then when they are at this stage they more likely to think of us. So this is the AIDA model, Attention, interest, desire, action and it's all about trying in some way to get the attention of little Charlie here when he's still thinking about maybe one day too when Charlie is ready to buy because the illusion that I bought my Nikes because I really wanted them, it's an illusion. The reality is the Nike has splattered their brand in front of me for so long with messages that resonate with me, but probably my decision was influenced by that.
So we use mobile, we use social, we use different channels and devices to get to cover the user journey. So what can you do? That my advice is to have you seek to understand the path to purchase, and that's almost impossible really, but it's the moment you start paying attention to it and asking yourself intelligent questions about it, you begin to make educated guesses. Start looking at assisted conversions from devices or channels, start running tests when, you switch device or a channel on and off and see if it has an influence elsewhere in the funnel. The goal is to give the right channel and the right device, the right credit. Two: remarketing. Remarketing lists for search ads, for those who don't know, is the ability to remarket somebody that has been on your site that is your customer, when they perform a Google search. Super important because people who are already your customers, people who bought before they should absolutely be targeted with priority. If you sell shoes and I bought shoes from you and I do a generic search about more shoes that I want to buy, your competitors will be there, you should also be there because I bought from you, I’m already qualified, so it's super important that you put your brand in front of me because I'm a qualified customer.
Basket abandoner. We pay for the traffic, they go for the funnel for some reason they don't complete and they leave stuff in their basket, we should absolutely retarget those people when they do a relevant search. The same is with people who view the product, a specific product. We can represent that product, the exact same product using dynamic remarketing through the Google network but also on Facebook and so on. Last but not least this, this really is up for debate whether you should retarget people who visit the homepage and then bounced off. I am a believer you shouldn't, because it's a bit like somebody walking into your store, turning around and leaving, I have no reasons to believe that customer is more valuable, but certainly it's, it's a good experiment to run. And the last point is to try and test with a [cookie length]. If we marketing easy and paying off try and shorten or broaden the cookie length, maybe people need more time, because what you sell has got a longer lead or maybe you targeting too often so reduce the frequency. So there are things you can try to affect the results from remarketing.
What else can you do on social? The first one is to target lookalike audiences. If you have an audience or your customers, target people that are the same, similar to these people, same age, same demographic, same likes and so on and so forth, you're more likely to succeed. Also I would strongly invite to treat mobile and social as the top of the funnel channels. If you expect social and I’m talking to Mario by the way, Mario if you expect to treat social and mobile the same way that you treat search where people are ready to buy now then you're doomed to fail. They are more top of the funnel channels when you try and get your brand in front of people who may be buying the product in a few weeks’ time. Engage, don't just post, very important and it goes with being native. On Facebook, speak the Facebook language, on Instagram, speak the Instagram language, very important, because the mindset is different. And engage instead of just publishing stuff ,so go on Instagram and see other brands or other users there are interest, of interest to you and comment and like their stuff, start a conversation on, on twitter, on Facebook. If people comment on your brand and talk about you, interact because that goes a long way, much more than just publishing.
And then a little bit of housekeeping in terms of frequency, how frequent is too frequent on a channel? That's a big question, so we're running a little bit of an experiment and the numbers we came up with are three to six times a day on Twitter, depending on what you do, once or twice a day on Facebook, three times a week on LinkedIn, no weekends, nobody gives a damn what goes on LinkedIn the weekend and on Instagram I'd invite you to try stories, at least once. Anybody who knows what stories is? Okay there's loads of you who don’t so i'll just spend a little time. Stories is just ability to send out a post, so a picture, they sticks around to your users for 24 hours, so that when they open up Instagram the first thing that they see is that, it’s almost like a promoted post and it stays there for 24 hours, that's a good way to test whether Instagram can bring you some value.
Moving on Mario, what do you think Mario? I mean guys this is obviously exaggerated right, but you know there are people really think Mario-like, I promise you and, and this is how it makes me feel. Doesn't it make you feel that way? If you want to grow but you’re not willing to work,… Let's look at landing pages model, this is a real search, yeah no photo shopping board, search for by skinny jeans for men, landed on a bunch of ads as you expect, I landed here yeah, this is on the desktop, traditional desktop, not too small or too big. I can't buy jeans on the first fold, there's nowhere for me to buy, nowhere for me to see it, so I have to scroll. Same thing, this is scroll number #2 remember, yeah scroll #3 slim fit, okay I want skinny jeans, #4 regular jeans. Imagine this, you walk into a store, hi I like some skinny jeans, would you like some regular jeans? No I like some skinny jeans. How about some slim fit jeans? I'd like some regular jeans. How, no, no how about some Lynn and how do you feel? I want to go crazy! That was a paid ad, somebody paid for a user typed in skinny jeans and then put him through that journey, when the bizarre thing is that this site had 19 skinny jeans available and a filter for it, all they had to do is to send these people to a filtered version of that page. Is that hard? No it just takes a little bit of out-of-the-box thinking.
Last time, almost done. Mario talk to me about email marketing and he says,(I’m going to dry and do Mario now) okay we have 150,000 people in the list and I say alright so some bought jackets, some bought jeans, some bought shoes, some bought one week ago, some bought one month ago, some bought one year ago, some bought one off purchase, some weekly and some never bought. This is what Mario says. How would you feel if you were me? I don't swear much, but I have no choice. What's interesting guys, what's interesting is that we used to be for a long time, I've been in marketing since I was 19 years old, the internet didn't exist, wasn't a thing, I was selling, advertising on a yellow pages competitor, competitor they had 200,000 copies we had 2,000, so competitor is a stretch but it used to be the case that big versus small, the big would always win yeah, you can never beat Nike, you can never beat all these big guys, but if you use creative thinking, resourcefulness rather than resources, and really try to be creative.
Things have changed you know, things have really changed. We now have a chance to be really competing. Do you know who this guy is? Everybody his name is Richard Bannister, in 1954 he said it was going to break the, the mile, the record for the mile and he it would do it sub four minute. And they said he was crazy. They said it's a rule of biology, your heart will explode. He ran the 4 meter mile, he did it, he broke the rules. So we need to be prepared to take some risks and break some rules if you want to achieve something special. And the main message for today is just don't be like Mario, thank you.
Moderator: Thank you very much, we do, we have time for a couple of questions, hands in the air who has a question for Luca, anyone? Here we go.
Q: What do you think about native apps versus mobile websites, like which trend is going to win or what’s the current situation? Mobile apps versus mobile websites
A: Well, so it's an incredible question for those who haven't heard, the gentleman asked what my opinion is on mobile apps versus mobile websites. It's an incredible question and I think it's a question asked early enough. I think mobile apps, I think this is my opinion, it isn't based on any data, I think it will win. I think eventually all sites will promote the download of an app, because if you think about it, it's easier not just the retailer, but it's easier for me. If I have an app of a shop where I normally go then I think I'll use that. However unless I’m a vivid customer of that shop, I probably wouldn't download the app. So I think for generic, for general growth I don't think that mobile apps will dominate but for existing customers absolutely.
Q: Also regarding mobile, I think I completely loved your presentation, there is just one fact that I didn't approve. So I'm neither working for ASOS nor for Zalando but you made a comparison between two different systems. So you showed this the mobile version of the desktop compared to the, to the mobile app and I just opened ASOS afterwards and I think the difference is that they look the same.
A: Thank you, now it's very good and so the lady for those who haven't heard pointed out correctly that I showed an example that I showed the mobile app for ASOS and a mobile site for Zalando, so not a fair comparison. True. The reason why I showed it is because I'm not customer either or I bought from both and the app was presented to me by a paid search and search as a download on my phone and Zalando wasn't, so the experience that I had, there was one click in between, you're right but the experience that I had was that actually the one from the app. So for me that did it, but you totally right, so what I think Zalando should do then is to create a very easy path to the app, if they've got one. Yeah good point, good spot, if you're looking for a job in Cambridge.